Talking shop with Mike and Kentucky Dave; Episode 134

Welcome to Plastic Model Mojo, a podcast dedicated to scale modeling, as well as the news and events around the hobby. Let's join Mike and Kentucky Dave as they strive to be informative, entertaining and help you keep your modeling mojo alive.

All right, dave, episode 134.

Yes sir, we are into the thick of February man.

We are. It sounds like the weather might try to come back this week, you know.

I am over it, I am just freaking over it.

Well, Louisville's in one of the lighter bands, so we'll see what I have in the morning.

Yeah yeah, Luckily it's not so cold. They've already canceled school for tomorrow, so my daughter's happy.

I bet. Oh well, man, Other than the weather in February, what is up in your model sphere, Dave?

Well, my model sphere is stoked and scared. Stoked because the website has gone live and it looks great and there's a lot of promise in its future. I'm scared because HeritageCon is coming up and I got to get this darn Moosaroo finished, so I am on it double time. I got to get that done.

Before HeritageCon it's extracurricular to HeritageCon.

Yes, Well, it needs to be done by the early part of March. So yeah, I'm hustling.

Well, hopefully the end of the tunnel is in sight. Let's hope, yep.

It's hope Yep it's getting there.

All right. Well, that's good.

So what's up in your model sphere?

Well, it's kind of chill man. I kind of got the website out the door at least phase one of it and just kind of took a pause. After that we got to figure out what we're going to do next, but just trying to figure out what we're going to do in 2025.

Well, hopefully we're going to get to a lot of shows, I hope so it's going to be hard to repeat last year.

Yeah, it will.

It really will, and hopefully we're going to make progress as modelers, as we have said on this show from time to time. What's your plan for getting better? Yeah, we haven't said that in a while. I know Mr Hustad has reminded me of that, so, yeah, we need to focus on that again.

Well, we can talk a little bit about that in the special segment.

Yes, we will definitely talk about that. So you ready to?

model I am. Even the bench has been a little chill of late, but I got some things done. I guess I got a little bit to talk about in the bench top halftime report Not not as much as the last couple of times, but we're good. We're trucking along.

Well, good, I assume you have a modeling fluid.

I do and, as I promised last time, I was going to have something different.

And I do. So what do you have?

I've got something different too Town Branch, Kentucky, Straight Bourbon Whiskey from right here in Leicenton Kentucky.

Oh, I don't think I've ever seen that before. That's what I got Town Branch Okay, well, you'll have to tell us at the end of the episode a little more about it, because I'm curious and what do you got? Well, I've got Villa Italia, Italian blood orange soda with an ice ball.

Last night was Super Bowl, and so Taking a break, huh I spent the day eating wings and drinking beer, and so I'm pretty much beard out. So I'm taking a break and I am having a blood orange soda. This is really good. They sell it at trader joe's and and it's not cheap, but it's really good. So I'll tell you about it at the end.

Well, listener Bill Moore is going to be disappointed. I was talking to him the other night and the can pops one of his favorite parts of the show.

Oh, I'm sorry. All right, I promise there will be a beer next time.

He mentioned that I thought it was funny. Yeah Well, we both have something different, so that's good, yep, and we got plenty of listener mail.

Good, anxious to hear. I love the listener mail.

All right, interesting mix this time, so let's get on into it. Dave, you got it First up from Upminster, essex in the United Kingdom. Mr Mark Grant, he has some storage tips.

We're going to get into that later. Yeah, I need some storage tips.

Well, his styrene bits and stuff were getting out of hand and he found some 10 millimeter square tubing and some eight millimeter round tubing. He made this holder up for himself, put some thick styrene on the bottom to stand up and he's got all his stock in there. Looks pretty nice. I need to get these pictures up on the dojo is what I need to do yes, you do it was a good idea. I like to let folks see it.

Yes, that is. One thing that I find really is a challenge is storing my stock and tube selection.

And he also made a big organizer out of some MDF board and a bunch of plastic totes. That is organized in the rest of his tools. He doesn't really have a quote-unquote hobby room. You know, dedicated space. Yeah, Thanks to the tips, and he sent several pictures and we'll have to put those on the dojo for him.

Yes, definitely.

Lister. Paul Wheeler out of Springfield Illinois Chatted with him a long time in our hotel room at I think it was Omaha. Yeah, I think it was A couple three shows back.

It's been a while. It's hard to believe it's been going on this long.

Well, he wanted to throw some props to Brandon and the folks over at Squadron, our sponsor. He had ordered an Airfix B24 and the Edward boxing of the B26. And after two weeks of making the rounds from Georgia to Illinois, you could probably walk there in two weeks.

Yeah.

Don't get me started. Don't get me started. Yeah, he opened the box to find, you know, the overpack, to find the Edward box had been completely smashed, slid open, said. The parts looked like they might be all right, but it bothered him enough to let Brandon know what was going on, what the post was doing to his goods.

Yeah.

Says Brandon got back with him right away and said he'd stuck a new kit in the mail. Thought that was some pretty fine service from Squadron.

That is, and, man, I'll tell you what, in fact, it made the local news here. In fact, it made the local news here. The USPS package delivery system has melted down in Louisville, and enough that it became enough of a scandal that it actually was the subject of a couple of news reports.

Bruce Bingston and he's in the San Francisco, california area. Sorry folks, another picture. I'll have to get this one up too the Zimmerit house. He was waiting in the car outside the Sunnyside neighborhood in San Francisco while his wife was dropping off some quilts she had made for a charity. And he looks up in this house and the stucco on it has been rendered in a very familiar pattern.

Oh really.

Coincidentally, but he was wondering why a wood-framed single-family home would need to worry about magnetically attached mines and explosives.

Well, that was clearly done by Hans, the house stuccoer, who came over after World War II.

Maybe he did. He used to work for Miag or Alcott or somebody.

Exactly.

Well, rick Reinert, he's down from the Lowcountry Myrtle Beach area, south Carolina, and he wanted to promote a show. All right, and we'll do that and maybe we'll do a little more detail later. This show is March 29th 2025. It's the Grand Strand Scale Modelers model show in Myrtle Beach, south Carolina, and the show theme is the Pacific Rim.

Oh, that's cool.

Informational email addresses here. You can also go to wwwgrandstrandscalemodelers it's not grandstand, it's grandstrandscalemodelersorg One big long word, and there you can find the show information. So, rick, we're glad to promote the show, and I don't know, lower South Carolina at the end of March ought not be too bad.

Yeah, it's a week after HeritageCon. It is Probably warmer in South.

Carolina, I bet you there's a week after Heritage Con it is Probably warmer in South Carolina.

I bet you there's no snow in South Carolina in late March.

Probably not Next up. Dave is Pat Cowden and he is from Kiefer, oklahoma, and we've talked a lot about working on an old kit or a hard kit or a crappy kit, only to have the new version appear while you're right in the middle of it.

Right Sacrificing to the modeling gods.

Well, he was building the Heller H35 Hotchkiss light tank.

Oh sorry. Thank you for your service, throwing yourself on that kit.

Well, and there's a Bronco one and a, I think, a hobby Boss one too. Yeah, so that's not the newest kit. Certainly Well, the Tamiya one is, but there are other kits between the Heller one and the Tamiya one.

Yeah, but he clearly got Mr Tamiya to kit the H35 by going and getting the oldest of the releases of that vehicle and building it.

Well, it makes me wonder what rabbit hole Tamiya might go down next in 35th scale armor, because that one kind of rounds out the suite of the must-haves for the French major vehicles of World War II. They've got the Char B1, They've got the Somua S35. They got an R35. And now they've got an H35, 39. And the Lorraine tractor too. Yes, so they've got the bigger ones. So, boy, it wouldn't be great if they beat Hobby Boss to a BT-5 and then rip through all the T-26s.

That'd be great. I was going to say that would be cool, as would any Polish stuff.

Or maybe they'll go back and start doing the other T-34s.

That would be good too.

We have no information, folks. I'm just sitting here dreaming on a live mic Now, up next, from Broomfield, colorado, suburb of North Denver, north of Denver, rick Baker. He says he's a scale model outlier. Stu and the folks at Scale Model Podcast just covered this Scale wars and it's a hypothetical situation and I needed to prepare you for this. So we're going to save this. Okay, I'm going to save it for the next installment of Shop Talk maybe. Okay, so we're going to tackle this, rick, but we just can't do it tonight. But we did get it and we appreciate it and I noticed Stu and company took care of theirs just this weekend. I don't know if OTB's touched it yet or not and I don't know if the posse's touched it yet or not. Got this email the end of January, so it's pretty fresh.

Okay.

So we'll have to. I need to set that one somewhere, put it over there. Next, another one from the UK North Somerset Modelers Society in the United Kingdom, david Pye, and he was thanking us for the dojo being a platform where folks can interact. It's his first thing he wanted to mention, because he got in touch with Ed Barrett out in California and he didn't give me the topic, but apparently Ed's going to do a talk for his club Now. I guess he's going to do that over some electronic means or Either that or Ed's flying to England.

Maybe he is, I don't know.

It'd be a good vacation. Well, that's cool, that's right. I mean, stuff like this just happens organically when you've got a community like that.

Yes, absolutely Absolutely. As I've said numerous times, the community that's grown up around the podcast has been the single most pleasant surprise about doing this thing.

Well, his second point was going back to episode 132 with Steve Anderson and during our conversation about his journaling, or the journal he's published, he had made a comment about celebrating what went wrong in a build or project or what happened. David thought that was a great one, so he's made that part of the second half of a meeting for them at his model club. So it's interesting.

It's a good way to turn an otherwise negative into a positive, into a learning experience.

Next is Ray Lapius and he's in Michigan somewhere. He sent us a dispatch from the MidMichigan modelers, Okay, and he went to their show and he said it was anything but mayhem. Really great show, great location, easy access, plenty of parking, lots of room for displays and vendors with room to grow. He wanted to applaud their efforts and thank them profusely and encourages anyone within driving distance, both vendors and modelers, to make plans to get to Saginaw and attend the 2026 4M Model Mayhem.

You know that warms my heart to hear. I'm glad we were able to help promote the show. These host clubs really go out of their way to make an effort to put on a show to welcome modelers from the surrounding areas and it's really nice to hear somebody come back and say, hey, they did a really great job. Thank you. And you know, when you're at a show and you have a really good time, find one of the local guys who helped put it on and let them know how much you appreciated it.

Well, speaking of Steve Anderson, he's written in again. And how much you appreciated it. Well, speaking of Steve Anderson, he's written in again and says you are right, dave, I'm always right. He says he's too eclectic to agree with you on your one true scale stance, but you're 100% right about how great our listeners are. Well, thanks, steve. Gets back to the other email. Right, yeah, he said he's heard you say it tons of times and boy did it prove true at the Hope it Don't Snow show in Rochester, Minnesota. I mean, he told us he was going to go, yeah, and he was there selling some of his stash and journals and a number of the listeners came up and had conversations with him. And he says he met Mark from the Twin City Arrow Historians, which makes me wonder if that's Mr Copeland.

That is indeed Mr Copeland.

Well good, he said everybody was incredibly nice. That was his first model show, or he'd be taking out his first model club meeting this Saturday because of it.

Well, good, that's fantastic.

Well our ambassadorship is working out. It's good to know. Yes, it is Well my last email. Well, what am I going to save till after their ad?

Got one from the Dixie Flyer himself Warren Dickinson, Down there in southern Kentucky. Hope he doesn't get too much snow.

He says he could have sworn. He had seen a whiskey glass or tumbler for sale on our swag section recently, but he doesn't see it on the website now. So if it's just his imagination running away with him, I saw what you did there, warren. That's a temptation song.

What he probably saw was the picture of a prototype glass that I posted when you and I. I posted a photograph along with the on-air sign when you and I were recording a previous episode, and that's probably what he remembers, but without spoiling it too much. We are currently working on this as an item, so stay tuned.

I've been through a couple of prototypes now. Yes, I think we're three actually, because you had your freelance attempt and now we've been getting a little help. So yes it's all good. I can't wait Me too. Well, dave. That's it from the email side of things until a little later. So what's been going on with the DMs?

The DM sides have been very active. I just want to highlight a few of them. First of all, thank you to all of the people who DMed saying that they'd gone to the website and how much they thought of it. That they'd gone to the website and how much they thought of it, and that's very flattering, particularly for Mike, because Mike is the driving force behind that website. I will tell you and a lot of people DM to tell us that A lot of people also DM to tell us how much they enjoyed Dr Miller's last appearance. We got a number of people who were happy to see Dr Miller back on the show and I want to thank everybody who wrote in to let us know that he thought he'd stuffed it up. Well, he always does that.

I know it wasn't the first time he's asked about that yes, no john, you didn't stuff it up no, you did a great job.

Kenneth walt scott jr dm'd me because we were talking about acquisitions and and stashes and you know buying more models than your current building rate will support, and he came up with my favorite new acronym that I am going to use from now on Sable S-A-B-L-E Stash Acquired Beyond Life Expectancy.

I think I've heard that before, but it is good.

I have never heard that one before. So, kenneth, I'm giving you credit for it, and I have already reached Sable and I'm going to have to do something about that. We'll see, but that's my new favorite acronym.

About an eight word sentence in your will. We'll take care of it, man.

That's right. All of it goes to Evan McCallum. Dave Weiss reached out to ask about attending the Nats, but attending only for part of the time. He's a pastor, so he needs to be back for Sunday morning early and so thus if he attends the Nats, it would be like for Wednesday or Thursday, or Thursday and Friday, something like that.

Or Wednesday, thursday, friday and leave on Saturday. He could still get a lot of the show.

He can still get it. Well, and I did tell him that. But he was asking is it worth attending even if you don't have the ability to go and enter because you have to be somewhere? Sunday morning God's expecting you. And I told him that, listen, even if you can only attend for a day, you know, no matter what day it is, Wednesday or Thursday or Friday, even if you can only attend for a day, it is worth going Because just that one day experience it's a local or a regional show on steroids, steroids. Now, the only problem with attending for one day or a short period of time is that you don't get the extended social experience that you might get over a couple of days. You know, going out to lunch or dinner with the guys hanging out after the show closes down in the evening, but still, yes, it is well worth going, even if you can only go for part of a day. Still worth doing, Wasn't he kind of close? Yeah, he was relatively close, as close as us.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I would agree. I mean, if you could get there wednesday evening and do all of thursday, leave on friday, or do all of friday and leave saturday. I mean really, I think if you left by midday saturday you would probably have experienced 90 plus percent of the show that would be relevant to anybody. Did not enter the the contest.

Yeah, oh yeah, no, like I said, the only thing if you can't attend the whole thing, the only thing you miss out on is getting to participate in the actual contest and, as I have said to a number of people, sometimes to their chagrin, the contest is the least important part of the nationals I mean it's great.

Don't get me wrong. It's wonderful. I love seeing all the models, but actually it's great if you go and enter. It's even better if you go enter and win something. It's very validating, but it is all of the other stuff that makes the Nationals the Nationals.

And any show for that reason really.

Yes, and that's true of any show, but especially for the Nationals.

That's true, and the survey doesn't lie. That's right.

The survey doesn't lie. That's right. The survey doesn't lie. Let's hope people are paying attention. Chris Doppler, one of our listeners up from the Duneland Club, I want to give him a special shout out. He's one of the guys who wrote in to tell us how impressed he was by the website et cetera, and he was already a Patreon and he upped his Patreon contribution and really I want to thank you for doing that. Anybody who gives anything really is helping us to defray the costs of what we're trying to do here, what we're trying to build, and that was very validating to have someone reach out and do that and tell us they've done that. So thank you, Chris, that was really wonderful.

Got any more. That's it. Well, folks, if you want to write into the show, you can do so through a couple of avenues currently. Maybe we'll have more later, I don't know, we'll see. That's right. Things may be happening. Plasticmodelmojo at gmailcom is the email way to do it, or you can direct message us via Facebook, facebook Messenger. So I usually handle email and Dave usually handles the DMs, and I don't know it's gotten to be about a balance as far as numbers of late. So I'm glad you helped me out there, bud.

Now listen. I got to do something, but you know I'm not just a pretty face. I'd like to thank everybody who has given the podcast a rating on whatever listening service you use to listen to podcasts. Thank you. If you haven't done it, please do it. Also, if you know a modeling friend who isn't listening to the podcast, please recommend us to them. You might have to help them download a podcast listener and subscribe to the show, but the best way for us to continue to grow is by recommendations of current listeners. So please, if you want to do something for Mike and I, do that, and that will really, really help.

And we do appreciate that. And if you want to do something else, you can check out all the other content out there in the Model Sphere. Please check out the other podcasts out there in the Model Sphere. You can do so by going to wwwmodelpodcastcom. That's model podcast plural with an S dot com. It's a consortium website set up with the help of Stuart Clark from the Scale Model Podcast up in Canada. He's aggregated all the links to the other podcasts in the spirit of cross promotion on one website. It's a one stop shop shop. You can go there and at least discover them all, Subscribe to all of them, the ones you like best, or however you want to do it. You can check them all out there.

In addition to podcasts, we got a lot of blog and YouTube friends putting out content into the model sphere. We mentioned Evan McCallum already. He's going to get all Dave's 72nd scale kits. That's right. He's got a YouTube channel called Panzermeister36. Man, I hope his latest project shows up soon. Yes, I know that one's got me excited. Panzermeister36 on YouTube. Chris Wallace, model airplane maker. Great blog, great YouTube channel. Keeps getting better and better. What's he working on now? He was he's painting. He's working on his Aerocobra.

You're right. P-39 from Arma.

Okay, 48 scale one though.

Yes, that's right, we'll forgive him. He's a great guy and a Canadian.

So we'll see how that goes here, hopefully not too long. Yeah, the Inch High Guy, jeff Groves, the Inch High Blog, all things 72nd scale there. Always got some cool stuff going on.

Yes, absolutely. Stephen Lee Spru, that's also 72nd Scale Aficionado long and short form blogs there. See what Steve's been up to of late and Steve is going to be in Louisville in March with his lovely bride for a conference, so I have promised him a trip to scale reproductions. I'll have to come in for that too. You definitely have to.

And finally Paul Budzik Scale Model Workshop over on Patreon. He's always got some really interesting things going on. You can just learn a lot about modeling both skills and some philosophy. So check out the Scale Model Workshop.

Finally, if you are not a member of IPMS USA, ipms Canada, ipms Mexico, whatever national organization, whatever, wherever you live, if you're not a member of your national IPMS organization, please consider joining. It's a bunch of modelers who give up some of their modeling time to try and bring organization to the hobby and to basically make other modelers' modeling experience better. So please consider joining. Also, if you are interested in armor or post-1900 figure modeling the Armor Modeling and Preservation Society, amps great organization, great group of guys, some really dedicated modelers who are just true artists and well worth joining.

Plastic Model Mojo is brought to you by Model Paint Solutions, your source for harder and steam back airbrushes, david, union power tools and laboratory grade mixing, measuring and storage tools for use with all your model paints, be they acrylic enamels or lacquers. Check them out at to wwwmodelpaintsolutionscom. Dave, it's time for Shop Talk again, finally, yep.

We got out of our cadence because of the restructuring of the last episode. Well, it was worth it. It was worth it, so we got some interesting things here. I think so we should just get right into it. Agreed, think so we should just get right into it, agreed.

Well, I'm going to start with mine.

Okay, I'll be interested to see what you mean by this. I just finished the E-16 float plane, nepal, yeah, and I was just curious generally. And then, as it relates to what you've done in the last year doesn't have to be in the last year, but however long you want to go back, what you've done or haven't done or wished you did, that pushed your skills comfort zone, and then what have you learned from that? And is there anything you want to do in the coming year which might get to our last question? So we might save that, okay, but what is the ebb and flow of that? What is the? And if you want me to start, I can start or you can start.

No, I'm ready to dive into this one.

Well, knock yourself out, Dave.

One of the things that in the last year I focused on was re-scribing, because I have not been as successful in re-scribing panel lines as I've wanted to be, and so, between talking with some really great modelers and basically practicing and paying more and better attention, I think within the last year that's a skill that I've worked on that has improved in my modeling. I like it, I like what I've learned, I like where it's going. Now the problem is is and this is a problem for me generally I'm not building as fast as I need to. We talked previously about wanting and needing to build faster, simply because that alone, I think, is a skill builder for the rescribing yeah what's the progression there?

where were you before your last build to where you are now? I promise I'm not bringing it up to make a dig about it, but did you do any rescribing on the F8?

No, well, just you know the erased panel lines, which is generally what I'm talking about in most cases, as opposed to somebody who takes an old kit, eliminates all the raised lines and scribes in new recess lines, which I did on an old Tamiya Zero or not Tamiya Hasegawa Zero in 72nd scale, and then Hasegawa, a year later, went ahead and released the same kit with recess panel lines. So there's a sacrifice to the modeling gods. But basically it was not devoting enough attention and effort to it and, again, because I build slower than I should and I need to, that one of the things that it's a skill like airbrushing that atrophies if you don't do it, and basically acquiring the touch and paying more attention to the detail as I did it, rather than rushing to get it half done to move on to something else. The other skill that I've worked on and this is completely new to me was on the LCM-3, I used my cutter to make masks. Now, that was my first time doing it and they came out okay, but just okay. I learned that I have a very big skill mountain to climb when it comes to that.

But it was something new, something I tried that I hadn't tried before. Got a new piece of equipment and learned to use it without letting it become a whole new hobby, and so I've at least begun to add that to my skill set. Now I'm going to need a lot more work with that, because I tried to do some masks on the SAM and that didn't work out and I had to drop back and resort to decals. So I'm not there yet, but I'm at least trying new things, and that is one of the things. When you model, I really do think that with every model you should try something new. If you don't, and you just crank out cookie cutters, you can build beautiful models that way, but I know for me I'd get bored if I didn't try new stuff. So, and I need to build faster, and we just all are going to acknowledge that, especially since, hey, you finished one for the year, I haven't, so you're ahead of me.

Yeah, but you got more on deck than I got.

Yeah, so now we know what skills you let's's see with the paul. You photo etched. You made your own photo etch, I did. You did canopy masking for the first time in a long time that wasn't in 2024, though well, I don't even know that I masked the canopy in 2020.

Yeah, okay, I probably did. I think I did.

Well, I'm talking about the whole stretch of the project. I wasn't going to gig you over the four years that it went on, but when you look at your Paul project I mean you literally made your own photo etch, which just to me was a really, really impressive thing to see. You know, you decided to build a 72nd scale aircraft for the first time in a long, long, long, long, long, long time and you took on a greenhouse canopy and a float plane that's jumping into the deep end of the pool.

Well, I think that's it. All those little things you just mentioned. All are under the umbrella of building the first aircraft I've built in a long time, 30 plus years.

Yeah, that's something that I'm curious about. You did all this work on this airplane. Do you think any of the skills that you acquired or stretched or learned, or whatever, will be transferable back to armor modeling?

Some of them will, but they'll certainly be transferable to the next airplane I built. Well, yeah, good.

Come into the light. The next airplane I built. Well, yeah, good, come into the light. Come in 70 seconds. Get layer clear, come in, come into the light.

What was the big takeaway was when I got it done and I started working on the armor most of the time again over the last two or three, four weeks, just having to learn how to handle that model, and the fact it was a float plane didn't make it any easier.

Right Looking back, I don't know why I picked that one, but I'm glad you did Because again, you don't see that model built very often.

No, you don't. It's the dive breaks in the front struts that make people not want to build it, which I took care of that with the photo etch. But back to the point, just the handling and how fragile it actually was at any point during this construction Well, not any point. Once the floats were on, Once it was mostly together how fragile it was compared to an armor kit in the same kind of situation.

Right.

I started working on the KV-85 again and I was like just ham fist and gorilla finger in the thing, man, I didn't care because I knew what I was doing, right, I knew what I could get away with. The airplane was completely not in my comfort zone just from the fear of breaking the thing, and I did break it a couple times, yeah, and that was never fun. Negative modeling's never fun. But I think I learned a lot, a lot of little stuff. The photo etch yeah, that could be applicable to armor again, the now not the canopy, because that was because that was pre-cut masks, which were great, but just the masking of everything else, again, because it was a float plane, that wasn't easy. I learned a lot there.

Yeah, well, I'll tell you. One of the things I bet you learned is having to think through what and how you're going to mask, to paint the scheme, in what order.

Oh, I did, and how I was going to even pull it off, and it's not, you know, it's not really that complicated a scheme, but Right, you got all this. You got all these floats in the way, just, and even how to spray the paint, and and, okay, I'm going to gonna mask this, but this is far away, I don't need to worry about it. Well, do you? Because you're going to be spraying this thing flipped upside down, turn to six o'clock and holding your airbrush out like this, to even hit that back corner and what, what's past that, now that you didn't mask, well, well, crap's half the rudder. So maybe I better mask off a lot more. And I did. I masked the crap out of that thing just to paint some very small areas.

And I don't know. That was interesting. Was it enjoyable, boy? It was stressful while I was doing it but in the end, when it all worked out, yeah I can say I enjoyed it now. Very satisfying. It was very satisfying. The other thing was really getting back in the groove of decaling. Since Deep Six my interest in model railroading kind of wholesale got out of that.

Right.

I was decaling all the time when I was doing that and really hadn't done much. A few, I think. There's a few decals, like on that little Airfix Bofors and Morse tractor I built. There were no decals. On the PT-76 I built. There are decals on the ammo boxes on the ZIS-2 anti-tank gun emplacement thing I built. But you know, very, very limited Right. Those are all situations that had wide margins for goof up the aircraft. Not so much and you would think that might atrophy as well. But some of the things did, some of the handling things did. You know you're a little rough on things and not as delicate as you might remember you needed to be. But the basic process though that all kind of came back and it came out pretty well, like the float stripes where I doubled up the layers of different color trim film to get away from using the out of register decals To get away from using the out of register decals.

That was something I used to do in model railroading all the time and to do some complex graphics and paint schemes. Just stack up basic shapes till you get it right and you could have three or four layers of decal and not really have a problem with that. But the trim film gets really thin. So I kind of put that back into play again and just I don't know. It makes me think what the next aircraft's going to be, and the whole thing was just really juxtapositioned against my armor builds once I got back into them.

Now this little flak panzer that's 3D printed has got some of its own challenges. I don't want to get into those tonight but maybe the next time I talk about that one ad nauseum in the Bench Top Halftime Report I'll vent about 3D printed models. So I guess we're always telling people to get out of their comfort zone and try new things. That was kind of my takeaway in the last year that aircraft build was. There are lots of things about it that were outside my comfort zone and it was really satisfying to get through them to a degree that I could be happy with or, to the lesser extent, Flak Panzer.

Do you find yourself a little more relaxed because it is in your comfort zone? You've done armor enough that you're much more relaxed. You're not having to think about it as hard.

The relaxed part, yes, but a little different swizzle on the think about it hard part. With that. With the armor projects, I can think three, four, five steps ahead. You know, basically with a project like the kv-85 there's some things in the kit instructions I'm concerned about some order and you know what parts are what. But once those fundamental things are in my head I really don't ever hardly go back to the instruction sheet again. I know how this thing's coming together, two or three, four, five steps down the line and it's just kind of automatic and that just comes from being well within your comfort zone. I think those projects don't require a lot of planning. Now there's a couple of things that will. I'll get to that in the Benchtop Halftime Report. But I've got a couple of things I've got to solve on that project. But by and large it's all just kind of coming natural. Anything else you want to say on the skilled comfort zone, dave? Well, yours is next, dave. So why don't you let folks know what you want to talk about tonight?

and and there's a reason for this, I'm I'm talking organization, as you know, because, mike, you've been in my model room. It's a claustrophobic disaster and I recently went out and got some wire shelving to. I've got attached to the model room a stash closet which is much more than a closet, it's a giant walk-in. But I had model boxes everywhere. They were flowing out into my hobby room. I had stuff everywhere and then I've got, because I'm a. As much as I wanted to was that it was unconsciously claustrophobic for me. Clutter will do that. Clutter will do that and you don't necessarily realize it when it's happening Becomes a stressful space. It does, and you don't want to. Our hobby is the opposite of what we want to be stressful. So, and also, if there are a bunch of really good modelers that you and I both know and that we interact with on a pretty regular basis, and from time to time they will send us pictures of their modeling spaces and, almost without exception, they are super organized, super neat, super clean, super organized.

Well, it may just be for the photo op.

Super clean, super organized Well, it may just be for the photo op, and I don't believe well, seriously, I don't believe that's the case because I know these people and that's their personalities. But I really do think that having that level of organization can make you a better modeler, not only because it makes you want to go down and sit down at the bench more often. Where the bench becomes a welcoming place instead of a place where you go in and then you look at all of the next time you come over, you will see at least a somewhat more organized modeling space. Now I know you've got plans afoot for some organizational changes in your modeling area too, don't you?

I do. It's some cabinetry and stuff that I've put off since we bought this house. We moved here in 09. Sounds about right, yeah.

Yeah 16 years, 16 years ago, and just other things have taken precedence over my. You know, my own needs, my wants, they're not my needs. I don't need, right, I don't need everything I want to do down here, but boy, it sure be more pleasant place, right, and we're going to be kind of quasi empty nest here in a few months, and there's a bunch of stuff down here that I'm going to be getting rid of. There's a bunch of stuff down here that I'm going to be getting rid of because it sat here for 14 years or however long we just said, and nobody wants it. Well, I think they want it.

I don't. They don't want it, they don't use it, but they don't want to throw it away or give it away.

It's either going to either take it or it's going to be taken. There you go and that goes. You know we got plans upstairs too and the rest of the domain, so this is my area. But you know, I can look around right now and I got paperwork just freaking piled everywhere down here, yes, and it's making me angry. I got to get some of this stuff thrown away and sorted and keep as little of it as possible, but I tend to. You know, we we joke about, we make a play on the critical mass you know right, critical mass critical mess.

We've achieved critical mess, and that's the time when well, for me it's when you just lost a tool you had four minutes ago and it's right in front of you somewhere, but there's too much crap on your workbench to find it.

That is a related organizational point that I forgot to mention. I am trying to get better about each time I use a tool even if I think I'm going to need that tool later in the modeling session or at my next modeling session putting the tool back in its place, because I can't tell you how many times I spend five minutes looking for something some modeling tool that I just had out and was using just the other day and my bench is so cluttered that when I look for it I can't see it for the clutter.

So when that happens to me and I know you do it to a similar degree is you stop? Yep, you clean up. Oh, there it is. Well, let's put all this other crap away too. You give yourself some more elbow room, and I don't know if that's organization or just cleanliness.

Well, I think they are related.

They are related. They are related but generally, am I organized? I probably erred organization but right now just running out of space. Well, I'm not running out of space, I'm running out of organized space. I've got plenty of floor space to do something else with and hopefully, and like you, I got books too. I got a full bookcase and I got some cardboard boxes that are full of books and it's all kind of in a greater plan to fix this place up here in the next year, year and a half and get some better organization, because you know I miss my old shop all the time at the old house.

Yeah, you had a good one.

I did and I kept that place pretty neat and pretty organized. Now a lot of other things in my life have changed since then, so it wasn't just the organization that was making me enjoy the hobby maybe a little more. It was a lot of other concerns in life that didn't exist yet.

Yeah.

But you know I get it, man, it's your shelving. You'll get some of that stuff out of your primary build room and get some sanity back in there. Yeah, anything else. On organization, you want to talk about my friend? Nope. So folks, tell us what you think about either your skills, comfort zone or organization. But we got one more topic coming up in a second. Well, this one I picked dave out of steve anderson's a guided journal for modelers, like we've told folks we're going to do. We're about an episode late because, again, the reshuffling that happened with the extended dr strange brush episode and this is a good one. It is because we've talked about the year past but we've, unlike some of the other shows, other pods in the model sphere, we haven't really talked about 2025 yet. And this question from Steve's journal is what do you want the next year of modeling to look like? I'll let you start, okay.

First, let me start at a high level. I want to be more productive. I want to be more productive. I want to finish more models. Now I've had this talk with Jim and with some other folks Finishing a model is not the be-all and end-all, because if you're enjoying the hobby and you know, I know modelers who build models but then prime them and never paint them Former club president in Louisville was known as Optimus Primer because he would do that he would build a bunch of models, get them to the prime stage and then start something new.

So, and he was enjoying himself yeah, I mean, he's a good modeler, having a lot of fun, really enjoyed his hobby and so completion is not the be-all and end-all, but I do think that completing models does, in many cases, bring satisfaction. I think you would admit that when you finished the Paul, you felt a level of satisfaction that you probably didn't expect, especially since it turned out maybe better than you thought it might when you began the project. So I do want to finish more models in 2025. I want to get to as many shows as possible, because again that—and not because—heck I probably don't enter at half the contests I go to, or more than half.

I like the social aspect of modeling. Most of my really good friends are modelers, and so when I go to a show, I will see modelers that I may not have seen since the last time I saw them at a show. And now, with technology, we can interact more online emails, dms. We might even get together for a group Zoom once in a while, but nothing beats going to a show and sitting down and talking at length, face-to-face, in person. So I want to do that and I want to, as I mentioned in the last segment, get more organized. 2025 is the year of organization. I am going to make my modeling space much more livable, much more inviting, so that I am drawn to the model room. So that's my high-level view of what I want 2025 to look like. How about you?

We always want to finish more. But I think you mentioned on it there and it gets back to something that I think is important and I think some of our colleagues in this space will think it's a cop-out, because they may be more about the finish side or the show side of things. But the journey for me, just the sitting down and the creativity and the doing, is as much the fun of this as ever getting to the end. And don't get me wrong, when that plane was done I could just sit back and say I don't have anything left to do on it. I'm looking at it, I think it looks pretty good, I'm pleased with it and I'm happy that I'm done with it. I enjoy that too.

But just sitting down here and pecking away at these two tanks, I got on my workbench right now thinking through the next problem. Eventually I'll just run out of problems to solve on that thing and it'll be done. That's kind of the way I approach things and people can give me all the hard time they want. That's just not the. You know I do it my way.

You do you? Well, exactly, there's no wrong way to build a model.

I think I want to pick something else to start here soon that's going to push the skills comfort zone again in this year. I would like to do that. I don't know what it's going to be yet.

I was going to ask you if you've been thinking about what it might be.

I have. They've all been mentioned before. The Katyusha is one I want to do. The German equivalent on maltier, the armored maltier panzerwerfer, is what I want to do. Right, both of those are pretty involved. A lot of them are cross-kit kind of things and kind of the the type of project I really like. Really, those are still armored. I don't know that those are going to really push the katusha might, because truck cabs and interiors and things with glass aren't quite the same as tanks, right. So maybe a little bit there, but there's going to be something with wings on it again, and I'm not sure which one that's going to be, maybe a car model or a railroad train car.

I've not done the automobile Automobiles, I don't know. That's really a genre that is not one that really interests me personally a lot. So I don't think it's going to be that Cause I think if I develop like a high gloss finish skill you know, with a few exceptions, that's going to be the only place that's going to be applicable and that's that's not a rabbit hole I'm going to go down and build a lot of cars, down and build a lot of cars. It's just not going to happen. I don't know what it's going to be. I want to explore this laser cutting. That's one thing. That's one thing I want to do. Yeah, 2025.

Well, you've got the toy to do it. I do.

Well, I don't work this and, like you, I'd like to get as many shows as possible. Skeptical, we skeptical. We're going to be able to repeat 2024. I think we got lucky in a couple areas. We did, but you know it was all fun. Yes, We'll see how it goes.

Absolutely. I will remember 2024 as a really, really good year in modeling. It was Even though I finished only one model. It can't be high tide though.

No, it cannot be, so we'll keep moving forward. I finished only one model. It can't be high tide, though. No, it cannot be, so we'll keep moving forward. You know 2025, there's some modeling adjacent activities that are going to be part of the website. Going forward that, I'm looking forward to doing some things that I thought I might do in a different way. I know I'm being vague, but that's just the way it's going to be until we actually roll some of this stuff. But looking forward to that, that's going to be a we actually roll some of this stuff, but looking forward to that. That's going to be a little while, though, but yeah, I think pushing the skills comfort zone one more time for 2025 is something I want to do. I'm just not sure what it's going to be yet.

Well, I'm looking forward to finding out with you.

Well, folks we've gone on here a little bit. That's the shop talk for episode 134. I'd really like to know what folks have done for pushing their own skills comfort zones, and we've already got some listener mail about organization.

Yes.

And then, what are you folks doing for 2025? That's above and beyond what you did in the last year. So let us know via listener mail or let us know via direct message.

And do me one more favor Everybody take a picture of your modeling area, your modeling room, your modeling bench, whatever. Post it in the dojo. I would just like to see everybody's different setup, because I think that would be kind of interesting to compare and contrast different people's modeling areas. So show us where you do your work.

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Well, folks, speaking of Bases by Bill, christian Gurney from Bases by Bill sent us an email and they got a few things to let folks know about. They've introduced their first line of airfield bases in their simple baseline. It's their first modern concrete kind of parking, hard stand kind of area Made of MDF with typical expansion joints already engraved into it. And they're going to have some future versions of this and some foreign versions as well. And they've also taken some time to rationalize their pricing for this line of product and they found some efficiencies in their production processes. Now this line also includes their US Navy and Imperial Japanese Navy, carrier decks, that sort of thing, and they decided to pass these efficiencies on to the consumer as a new pricing structure.

So that doesn't happen very much in our hobby. No, that's awesome. So their 72nd scale bases are now starting at $9.99 plus shipping, and you can find similar reductions in the other scales as well. So check out Bases by Bill if those things interest you. And they've got some other stuff coming up later this quarter and they can't wait to share those with us. So we look forward to what they're going to come out with next. So, christian, thank you for that, and that will launch us right into the Benchtop Halftime Report, dave.

Yes, well, I could tell you what I've been doing at the bench, but then I'd have to kill you, the reason being I've been working on the Moosaroo feverishly and it's coming along, and I have spent a lot of time with it this past week and I'm hoping to get some good time in this week. And if I do, the model itself should be done.

You know what you need to do.

Hopefully by the 20th.

You need to encourage a ladies road trip. Yes, yes, yeah, a lady's road trip, yes.

Yes, yeah.

Gets you about two and a half days of nothing but feeding the animals.

Exactly, Exactly. So that's basically that's all I've been doing. The SAM is sitting there. It's oil washed on the top, completely. I need to flip it over and do the oil wash on the bottom. Then I need to go back and do some pin washing. But it's well advanced along. But I just need to get this Moosaroo done so I can then flip back and finish the Sam.

No, so you can go start some Bearcats.

Yeah, well, I've got to do that too. But let's not think about that. Let's get the Moose to redo it. The Bearcats are going to be easy. They're going to be simple. Well, I hope they are. Well, your bench has actually seen movement and you are back to both the KV and the little 3D printed 35th scale. Yeah, the little flat panzer thing.

Yeah, Both 35th scale. Yes, I'm done, basking in the glory of my completed project.

Well, isn't it nice to be working on a project that you can hold in your hand and not worry you're going to crush it or break it.

Yes, absolutely, absolutely true. In fact, I use my thumbs to push out a cover plate I'd put on the turret ring of that KV-85, because I'm going to have to go back and be able to reach inside of it, so I didn't even think twice about it.

You'd never do that on a 72nd scale aircraft.

So with the KV-85, I've got the. Where am I? I've got the side, whole side blisters on. I still got the weld seams to go back and do. I've got the, all the filling work puttied and sanded. All that's all sanded out and ready to go.

I want to have the front driver's visor pose open, which the kit allows you to do, but with Bronco it's always kind of ish. Well, the problem is the, the driver's visor on the kit, the, the perimeter of it, the actual width and length of it. We're almost exactly the same size as the hole in the front of the hole, where it really should be bigger and have a lip to sit on when it plugs in. So I was like something. This is stupid. So I went and got the trumpeter kit I had and took the visor out of it.

Which folks? I'm notorious for this. I'm sure a lot of modelers do this. But here I robbed a kit for a part that's literally about four millimeters by 10, maybe, maybe, not even that big, probably not that big, but it fits perfectly like it should. But I've got some work to do. That's why I had to get back and take that cover plate off, because I got to be able to reach up in there on the back side and glue the the part that has the armored glass in it that fits behind the visor right because when that's open you can see that from the front.

So then, and it comes with all that and I'm working through it and I've got most of that figured out. I've got the main fenders figured out. One thing I've been doing on it is the photo etch to do the engine intake screens. You know left and right of the main engine hatch on the KV.

Yeah.

Unbuildable. Now it's an overused term right.

Right.

But I really think they're pretty close to not being designed in a way that it can actually go together. The problem is, is the mesh for those things uh-huh, is the same dimension as the hole that they're supposed to cover. So there's no overlap right, so there's nothing to glue it to. It's. It's really ridiculous. That was good planning I started. Let me back up.

I had some of the old nylon screening that Verlin used to sell it and somebody else used to sell it to Custom Dioramics or somebody. Basically it's tool fabric from a fabric store probably is all it is. I kind of did the old school where you embed that in liquid cement on the frame and mash it in and I built up one of the extra frames that way. But the, the pitch of the, the weave of the screen of the mesh, is too big, much too big for for the, for the KV.

And then I was talking to the guys on our spazzers group chat about it one night and Evan's like well, you can buy all this different photo edge screen, why don't you just do that? So I bought some of that and I was trying to make a mold to form that in off this other stuff. But real quick. It was looking like well one. I cast the the mold to make the photo edge form and I tried to form a part in it while it was still a little bit green and it just cracked in half. So that didn't work. So I may try that again. But right now I'm trying to go find a tool at a fabric store that is the right pitch, that had the hole sizes right.

Yeah, I would think that that was the thing I was going to ask you.

It exists, but I've been to Joann Fabric three times and walked out of there with nothing, because the ones they have that are the right get a reputation are the right hole size, the right pitch, you know the right screen size, aren't just a basic blank tool, that's, you know four dollars a yard. It's always got some kind of glittery kind of crap printed on it or fairy mushrooms or some costuming kind of crap and it's like like $20 a yard and I need like a piece the size of an index card.

Right, you'll be buying one yard of whatever you buy.

So I'm going to have to buy a yard of whatever I'm going to buy and I've walked up there twice to the cutting counter with this under my arm, biting a bullet, going to pay that to get it. And there's always one person working there and the person at the current counter being serviced by the fabric cutter has like a stack of fabric bolts, has 20 bolts of fabric. 20 bolts of fabric, yeah, and there's two other people waiting, yep, and I'm like, screw it, I'll come back later. Well, I've come back later two times, so a total of three trips. Luckily it's not very far from the house, but I'm getting a little annoyed at Joanne Fabric. But that's neither here nor there. That's the KV-85. That's where that stands right now.

The weld seams, though that you're doing. You're using the Archer weld seams, are you not? Not on the KV? Okay, you're doing that on the Flak Panzer.

I do it on the Flak Panzer. So on the Flak Panzer I was going to where the rear plate goes onto the hull. It's the one hull piece, that's separate.

Right.

It's going to because, well, that's how they it gets into, how they printed the model, but that piece goes on and there's a seam around the entire thing. Model, but that piece goes on and there's a seam around the entire thing. So basically, you're going to just assume that the thing was printed to about scale thickness, so you're going to want to have that welded onto the back of the tank, right?

Right.

Well, because of the way it was designed and the way I printed some of the parts, that gap between the two parts was not very uniform. In some of the parts that gap between the two parts was not very uniform and because of the material it just wasn't going to scribe out very clean to get it to where I wanted it to be. On the bottom I tried to do the epoxy putty weld seam in a scribe groove. Just the width was all over the place. It just didn't look very good. So I went back and epoxy puttied over the entire seam all the way around the tank, sanded it smooth and I've gone back and used some of these Archer 3D printed surface detail welds on it Because Evan had used those on the Panzer II he built.

Yes.

And you know he had his caveats about them and kind of thought I knew what I was getting into. Well, they came out pretty good. Now I'm curious how they're going to look under. I need to put a heavy coat of primer on them to kind of bury the rest of the decal film. But they probably look more like the welds that were already on the model, that were printed into the model already, than anyone I would have done by hand. So in that sense they're going to look pretty good. So I need to put some pictures up of that. So that's kind of where that's been going.

Well, I'm interested as you work on the 3D printed model, since it's a completely 3D printed model as opposed to some 3D printed parts for a plastic kit. I'll be really interested to hear, as you get along, what the subtle differences and the not so subtle differences about a 3D printed kit are. You know just design assembly challenges that you wouldn't face in a normal plastic kit build. So I'm interested to hear that.

Well, I'll keep that in mind and make that a point of conversation the next time.

You got it.

Well, that's my bench man. You got anything else?

That's it.

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Mike, have you acquired anything model related lately?

You know, I almost dropped this segment out of the lineup because I've been a good boy, Dave, Other than chasing this tool fabric. I'm trying to think if I've actually bought anything else. I don't know that I have Even supplies. In fact, the last time I was in Louisville and went to Brian's, I don't think I bought anything. No, that's not true. I did buy some Milliput.

Okay, there you go. You know, the last two times I went in Brian's, I've walked out empty-handed each time, and not because there wasn't a lot of good stuff in there to grab. But you know, it's one of those things like I acquired a lot in 2024, and I really need to get some built before 2025, before acquiring new, to get some built before 2025, before acquiring new.

Well, I think I bought those WZ-34 armored cars since last time we did this segment. Yes, you know that's going to feed into the nuances between you know, polyurethane resin cast kits, injection molded kits and then 3D printed kits. Yes, I haven't forgotten folks I still need to. Yeah, I did buy those. I then 3D printed kits yes, I haven't forgotten folks I still need to. Yeah, I did buy those. I need to break that out. Yes, I want to see it and let folks know personally what I like and don't like about them.

Yeah.

They're nice.

Because I want to build that I really do. I've actually well been a good boy, maybe stretching it. I have not acquired any kits or, I think, even supplies. What I have done is that I bought a book.

I was about to say you bought books or decals.

I did. I got a couple of sets of decals thanks to Inch and Jim Bates, so I got some decals. I acquired a book when I was up at. It's a two-volume set. I got volume one but I got some Amazon money for Christmas so I went on Amazon and bought volume two. So now I have the complete set, which may herald some JU-88s in my future We'll see.

I bought, as I mentioned, some wire, shelving and supports and everything and spent it was last Saturday I think installing it and clearing out my model room of everything that was cluttered around everywhere and put it on that shelf and I'll post a picture in the dojo of it. And then, thirdly, and probably biggest expense-wise, I acquired a color laser printer which, while not technically for modeling, may well have some modeling related uses. But we'll see how that goes as it happens, as things develop. So that wasn't strictly a modeling expense. So I'm not going to count it as a modeling expense. But it may have some modeling-related uses, but no kits and no paints or supplies or glues or any of that.

Well, my cart's filling up at Squadron.

Yeah, mine too.

You have to let me know.

Okay, well, when you're ready to pull the trigger, let me know. Mike we're almost at the end of the episode. I can tell you my Italian blood orange soda was really really good. I really enjoy this. If you all go to Trader Joe's, they have a series of these sodas. They've got a limeade, they've got a lemon-flavored soda, kind of like a limoncello, and then they've got this blood orange soda. They're really really good. If you're looking for something to take a beer break or a bourbon break, I highly recommend them.

Well, the Town Branch is made right here in Lexington. It's made by Alltech, which brews some beers and makes some equine pharmaceuticals and bourbon.

An interesting combo Applying all the same science probably. Yes, I got it because I hadn't had in a long time and I wanted to make sure, given any shift shift in my palate, that maybe my opinion was a little more favorable this time. Man, I am not a fan of it, given the other things I've found and enjoy more just now. What's the proof on it? I don't have the bottle, I can't tell. I don't remember off top of my head but it comes across as a little hot but. But that could just be the whole thing.

It doesn't have to be a high ABV to do that, necessarily. Just, I think it finishes that way and it's not as enjoyable as the Russell's or the Bullet or just about anything else I've had in the last year. At least that was made in Kentucky. It's better than some of the other bourbons I've had We've gotten from some folks, but there are some non-native ones that I've gotten that are a lot better than it too. So yeah, probably won't be revisiting this one again. I think I'm done with it. So sorry for the local brand, but just not happening.

There's a lot of other bourbons being made in Kentucky to choose from. You're not going to be wanting. Finally, Mike, we've reached the true end of the podcast. I've got a shout out. My shout out is to all of the listeners who reached out when the website went live to tell us how impressed they were by it, to congratulate us on getting it rolled out. Stay tuned, there's a lot more coming. We are building a place for the community and there's going to be lots of resources, et cetera. And just thank you for all of you who paid attention when we announced it and stay tuned.

Well, that kind of segues into mine. But to pile on what you just said a little bit. You know, in some regards it's not a great way to say it, but the initial launch, I mean, it's mostly aesthetics. Right now it's as far as functionality. Maybe it's even underwhelming to some folks because it really just replaced the site we were getting from Buzzsprout. But what folks can't see is the back end of the thing and how it's been constructed. That's going to let us do a lot more with it. A lot easier than it might be had we tried to create it ourselves with our amateur abilities. So I want to thank everyone who's made that possible, mostly through their generosity, and, as I've always say, we thank you for that. It means a lot and it helps us get this thing going and it's going to help us bring more to it. If folks would like to do that, we set up several avenues to do that, with Patreon, paypal, buy me a coffee, the merchandise store and you can find all those links on the website. I can finally say that now.

Yep.

Or in the show notes, but they're definitely on the website wwwplasticmodelmojocom. There's a support, the show link on there and you can get to all those avenues right there. And folks, thank you very much. We're glad to get it up, we're glad folks like it. But as far as function right now it just replaces the Buzzsprout site. So onward and upward, Dave, Onward and upward. Well, we are at the end.

Well, Mike you know what they say.

So many kits, Dave.

So little time.

Mike. All right, man. Well, we'll see you real soon. Yep, you get your sucker knocked out.